this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2026
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[–] Lasherz12@lemmy.world 57 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)
[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (7 children)

Even in this example, there is one side that is obviously far far worse than the other.

[–] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

Not really.

A guy standing in a room watching a rape or murder is also irredeemable scum.

[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 14 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Less bad than the one committing it. Maybe not "far far" but still.

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[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 5 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

There is a reason however that in such cases the law differentiates between murder and accessory to murder. The latter carries less severe penalties. They are simply not the same thing and one is objectively worse than the other.

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[–] Lasherz12@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)

I agree, but also don't think we should be so devoted as to defend them for being the only ones who can help us and having them watch and do nothing. They're more concerned with the people running on doing more. Is that an Ally or just the weaker of two enemies?

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[–] thethrilloftime69@feddit.online 5 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)

I don't think we should really be heralding the "better" side as the ones that are going to save us. Remember their goals are ultimately the same.

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[–] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 37 points 2 weeks ago (16 children)

It is the job of fascists to make sure any groups who might oppose them are too busy fighting each other to stop them.

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[–] uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 23 points 2 weeks ago

This actually was a bit of a process. After Hoover, America was a serious shithole. A Hooverville was a shanty town. We call them homeless encampments now. It took Roosevelt's new deal to pull us out with a lot of national programs.

Then WW2 happened and we were super in debt, and we needed to get really organized to develop a robust union-supported middle class, so that our GDP outpaced our debt + interest + spending.

And the owner class took all that personally. Before the war, the industrialists organized a propaganda campaign to instill capitalist values in the US (and no small amount of fascism). They weren't yet good at it but got better with time.

And once big industries were unionized and regulated, Lewis F. Powell Jr. wrote his notorious memorandum outlining the plan to recapture the government, especially the courts, in order to create a pro-commercial state, e.g. one in which unions weren't welcome, regulations weren't enforced, and the working class knew their place.

And the owner class has been following that agenda since. Of course, it is turning the US back into a shithole on the verge of fiscal collapse, but they don't care. Nor do they listen to the economics experts that point out that liberal democratic societies end up far richer, including their owner class. They think as Trump does, that they're the experts on everything, and they surround themselves with sycophants who don't disagree with them or challenge their ideas.

In the 1970s, but especially after Reagan, lobbyists and special interest groups gained access to elected officials, and got really clever in all the ways that they can bribe them. Politician went from being a decent career into a gateway into the owner class, and so people ran for office not to do things (e.g. to create change) but to be adjacent to power. Nowadays, money is super entrenched. Campaign contributions are dwarfed by PAC money which is dwarved by Superpacs, and then there's the promise of post-career cushy high-paying jobs... as lobbyists.

(Apparently it's super humiliating. Once you're in office, if you want to keep your campaign sponsors happy -- and willing to keep you in office -- you have to pass what they say. They give you the bills prewritten and expect them to be passed verbatim. Fail, and that sweet high-paying job you were promised after your political career is gone. So elected officials beholden to large sponsors are forced to be absolutely subservient. It explains why it's so natural for Republicans to abdicate all responsibility to Trump, and why establishment Democrats are incredibly milquetoast, and make every excuse not to pass public-serving legislation. It also explains why establishment Democrats are fighting progressive and DSA factions more fiercely than they fight Republicans, even though the GOP is actively trying to unmake the two-party system and arrest the Dems as political enemies as soon as they get the chance.)

Progressives and DSA are gaining traction specifically because the establishment Democrats are just weak Republicans, and many of those who'd vote for them would rather vote for the guy with the fancier suit and the better memes. Progressives and DSA are coming into office with an actual platform beyond we're better than the Republicans and are trying to actually pass public-serving policy.

Trump, in the meantime, has a knack for inviting people to be their worst selves. He attracts voters who just want to vote based on vibes, rather than a platform and their own best interests. Trump also is openly racist in contrast to the dog-whistle racist Republican party of 2015. White racist Americans found refreshing. He's only saying what we all are thinking. Since then, the Republican party now has a purity test, that either you're 100% MAGA devout, or you're a RINO. And already we're starting to see the MAGA movement start to cut into their own ranks, excluding those who are not quite perfect.

[–] W98BSoD@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 weeks ago (7 children)
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[–] A_norny_mousse@piefed.zip 20 points 2 weeks ago

Agreed, but you should still go and vote the brainworm posse out.

[–] ViceroTempus@lemmy.world 13 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (2 children)

Look you're either down to use your allotment of violence this November to fight back within the system, or you're mad enough to fight The System, and build anew.

super secret optionBoth, both is also good.

Anything else makes you a Republican Asset. Fascism is already here, and I don't believe you can vote your way out, but there is value in getting the data to prove it. There is value in giving The Democratic Party enough rope to hang themselves with. To prove to both yourself and others that even with more power The Democratic Party will still only fight with strongly worded letters.

There is also value in pumping up the DSA faction inside the party, and helping them takeover.

There is no value in staying home, and it's too late this election to build a Third Party Movement. So your options are either get behind Blue, or get ready to get bloody. Otherwise you're just a whining Republican Asset.

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[–] peregrin5@piefed.social 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) (11 children)

Voter depression task force out and about again right in time for midterms. Man "leftists" must really love having Republicans in power.

You folk are either Russian bots, or so far brainwashed by Russian bots you've become indistinguishable from them.

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[–] lntl@lemmy.ml 11 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

IMO democrats aren't really "left." They're more like "were going to use the federal gov to protect corporations" and then the GOP is more like "were going to use the state and local governments to protect corporations"

And then every November, Americans vote to protect corporations.

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[–] Whostosay@sh.itjust.works 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Weird uptick of both sides bullshit the closer we get to November, go vote.

[–] homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

Predictable uptick

[–] athatet@lemmy.zip 10 points 2 weeks ago (1 children)

Both sides are the same? We mush have an election coming up.

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[–] myyass@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago

I've been saying similar things for a long time now. Repulicrats and Demicrans are two sides of the same coin. Bush signed in the patriot act. I got all excited to make a change and voted for Obama. Then he signs in the expansion of the patriot act and carpet bombs the shit out of Syria.

[–] OldChicoAle@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

With all this national debt, you'd think we'd have something to show for it.

[–] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago

A temporary trillionaire?

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[–] SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.social 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This is the time of the year when accounts with a thousand post and ten comments start trying to depress the vote for the only party that has a chance to beat the republicans.

[–] Katana314@lemmy.world 9 points 2 weeks ago (3 children)

There’s a thousand criticisms of US politics I agree with, that make sense; but the one thing that has never made sense to me is why the Republican Party exists.

It’s a horrendous monster with no visible redeeming values. The Democrats can live off “We will fight the monster!” and be opportunistic scumbags, but no explanation given for why that monster exists.

As long as even some of the democrats build up a platform of fighting that monster, and have to pretend to do it, then it’s better than those monsters actually being in charge. I’m not a fan of handwaving the “hard fact” that group still continues to exist as a pure enemy of American success through today’s age, and it turns almost anything else into a lesser evil.

[–] kestrel7_7@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

Mostly gerrymandering/voter suppression/corruption (they’re all the same thing, to me). The Republicans are always accusing Democrats of influencing elections, because they know how easy it is.

You can look it up yourself pretty easily: there are about 1.5x as many people who reliably vote Democratic as there are people who reliably vote Republican. The only reason Republicans ever win anything is because of baldfaced voter suppression.

[–] GripenGal@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago

The part that makes even less sense is that majority of Americans support that monster party, even after it got significantly more monstrous (maggot movement)

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[–] crusa187@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

This is why I think reforming the Democrats is a lost cause. They would rather torpedo the entire thing than give an actual leftist one iota of power.

El-Sayed / Hasan manufactured controversy playing out right now is a perfect example of what this looks like.

[–] Freeposity@lemmy.world 17 points 2 weeks ago

Consider that a lot of this is coming from campaign consultants who eschew the idea of grass roots funded lean campaigns that don't waste money on TV ad buys(and more consultants).

Also, a lot of this is coming straight from AIPAC. Every single Democrat politician that is engaging in this character assassination spree is getting money from AIPAC.

And, since the lefty candidates tend to communicate to their base via "non traditional" means, traditional media sees them as a threat too.

[–] ChicoSuave@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago (2 children)

The whole manufactured controversy is just Israel's talking points. "Antisemitism" this and "no genocide" that - these aren't real points and it's why AIPAC incumbents are being singled out. The situation has become overly apparent that the DNC is hamstrung by foreign interests to be ineffective.

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[–] Godric@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago (4 children)
[–] dohpaz42@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago

This is a real and legitimate threat. Dismissing it outright does just as much harm as you perceive the “both sides” argument you’re railing against. The only time it’s a legitimate problem is when it’s used to dissuade voters from voting. It still needs to be discussed so hopefully it can be fixed.

[–] Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

They're not the same, but they are both anti-union and pro-corporation.

Indisputable.

... and they're working together to fuck you.

[–] rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 points 2 weeks ago (12 children)

"I have no concept of nuance. Red party bad, blue party good. Any opinion other than this is a Russian bot"

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[–] Space_Cowboy92@lemmy.world 6 points 2 weeks ago

There’s a lot of liberals in here thinking they’re leftists, or trying to “unify the left” in their usual bullshit ways.

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