this post was submitted on 13 Aug 2026
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electoralism

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Almost posted this to /c/slop for the cognitohazard but these '20 biden to '24 trump voters really are just lost souls that maybe deserve some :gasp: empathy and outreach

Katrina, a 53-year-old independent voter, said it was hard to put into words why she's so anxious, but she knows she is.

"I feel anxious that nothing has really changed," she said. "I mean, Trump talks about this 'Big, Beautiful Bill,' but, it's like, I don't see any difference. In my life, I don't."

Like yes this is leopards ate my face content, but on the other hand:

Melody, a 37-year-old independent, added: "I wouldn't immediately think bad of someone. I would want to talk a little bit more about it with them because … to me, they're at least trying to think of a solution where everybody has rights and everybody has food, everybody has a house, everybody has a job. They're at least looking for something like that for everyone."

Marianne, a 57-year-old independent voter, said she thinks traditional Democrats are "more centrist" and cater to more corporate interests.

"But they also care about the people as well, the working people," she said. "Whereas socialist Democrats are more about community."

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[–] came_apart_at_Kmart@hexbear.net 1 points 9 hours ago

not really shocking. i don't know many people with a coherent politics. the hegemonic ideology is a flashy, exterior scaffolding meant to distract from the massive gaps in the decaying, malevolent structure. the hegemon is incoherent, and we all live in its shadow.

as others said before me, the US is a project held together by cheap treats. that's what people know: what are the treats they like. how these treats arrive before them is generally mysterious and unimportant to their enjoyment until the treats aren't within reach.

many will accept whatever logic they are exposed to. "i can't afford housing because there are too many regulations." or "i can't afford housing because wall street." that's as far as it goes. people aren't provided the tools of critical or material analysis in education. frankly, they are mostly given thought-terminating cliches, wound up, and sent out into the job market.

i work with a lot of libs, but many of the gen X and elder millenials are either infected with "entrepenurial innovation" brainworms or just incurious about material analysis. younger colleagues seem more prepared to question the assumptions of the structure, and a few random career-stalled olds are in the mix that, thankfully, recognize the adversarial nature of the ruling class and engage with imperialism/decolonial narratives so they recognize how those structures are being deployed within the core. but there's this big chunk in the middle, frankly people my age, who aren't interrogating. i think it's because at my age, if your career and net worth are still on some type of OK trajectory, you're likely to have bought-in and are unnerved by boat rocking. you stay in your lane, you focus on your situation and care primarily about the politics that intersects explicitly with your turf.

all that to say, politics here are a combo of vibes and material conditions. i used to work in a community and situation that was considerably more antagonistic to left politics and worker organizations, so i have this pathological predisposition to seeming to blend into some kind of politically vague median. like camouflage. nowadays, i say political shit fairly frequently about being pro-worker or adversarial to rentier politics, surveillance tech, and war but few ever pick up on the thread. the result is everybody my age who talks to me assumes i share their "common sense" centrist-civility politics. lol. xi

i legit think that a lot of the political evolution in the US is held back by the continued functioning of the treat machine and the lack of a project that is unifying around a tent-pole issue. in my experience, people are issues focused. i think having a coherent politics is worthwhile, especially when building a project, but it's the lightning rod issue that will blow it up and make it unignorable. something like healthcare, a catastrophic energy crisis, or a massive national ecological disaster is what i would expect to snap the reigns.

the fact that nobody with a national platform even talked about universal healthcare for almost 10 years, and that there was a global pandemic during that period, shows just how desperate the establishment was to prevent it from being the inciting issue. i still think it has potential if someone could get on and recruit for a national platform and just never shut up about it. and embrace total fanaticism: won't change their mind, won't change the subject... universal healthcare. but, right now my money is on a major and acute energy crisis. like diesel & No2 Heating Oil $10+/gal type shit. somewhere up there is a price point that pierces the centrist-civility fog and has people reimagining the possible.

[–] robotElder2@hexbear.net 31 points 1 day ago (2 children)

I don't think these people are unreachable. I think they have the opposite problem. I think they are so easily reachable by anyone that nothing sticks. You could take hours carefully explaining the situation to them and it would seem to work. They would nod and agree and say they'd never thought of it like that and seem impressed by your insight. They won't apply anything you explained to anything else, and the next time cable news comes on it'll all drip out of their ears. By the next time you see them you'll be back to square one.

[–] Adkml@hexbear.net 16 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I read sonething a little while ago about a study where they asked respondents if there should be work requirements for medicaid. One third opposed it, two thirds supported it.

The pollsters then explained to respondents that everytime that has been tried it cost more money than it saved money, led to less people on welfare, and most of the people who got kicked off welfare weren't frauds they were elderly people that couldnt navigate all the extra digital hoops to jump through.

After having this explained they asked the question again, one third supported it, two thirds opposed it.

Now you'd think that would mean the problem is the 1/3rd od the country that is comically evil and explicitly just wants to punish people and cause suffering regardless of economics or whatever.

But the real problem is the 1/3 of the country that is so politically illiterate they don't even understand the consequences of their own beliefs.

These beliefs aren't based on anythin least of all real world evidence. They just say what they think sounds right and don't give it any further thought even if it means that they're voting against their own interest.

It's encouraging so many changed their minds after being presented with factual evidence, or at least it would be if I didn't fully bel8eve they would just as easily change their mind again if some republican hack didn't tell them that kindergarten teachers are doing gender reassignment surgery.

You literally can't have an effective outreach for a third of the country because they're so fucking empty headed a whole campaigns worth of messaging and campaigning can be undone by a doomsday preacher that happens to be a few steps closer to the vot8ng booth than you were.

[–] free_casc@hexbear.net 6 points 1 day ago

You literally can't have an effective outreach for a third of the country because they're so fucking empty headed a whole campaigns worth of messaging and campaigning can be undone by a doomsday preacher that happens to be a few steps closer to the vot8ng booth than you were.

Kinda saw that happen with Hong this last week

[–] stink@lemmygrad.ml 11 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Yes, that is true with my chuddy coworkers, but I'd rather engage with them any day of the week compared to the smug liberals who think they're right and ignore any evidence presented to them.

[–] mar_k@hexbear.net 3 points 1 day ago (1 children)

What kind of chuddy coworkers you got? All the ones I've had are just as smug while ignoring evidence on twice as many things. I'd kill to have a lib coworker who's at least halfway in reality (and doesn't harbor the same level of prejudice)

The other day I told my boomer "apolitical" coworker I'm minoring in environmental science, and he immediately starts ranting about how the climate's always changed, species have always gone extinct, etc.. I politely explain how the data shows human activity's significantly amplified temperature variations and extinction events, and he tells me I'm a brainwashed college kid who doesn't know what I'm talking about, and how "gen z thinks you know everything while having no life experience." Mind you, this guy claims to have a "genius level IQ"

[–] stink@lemmygrad.ml 2 points 23 hours ago

Mainly gen x sovereign citizen types

[–] duderium@hexbear.net 27 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Marianne, a 57-year-old independent voter, said she thinks traditional Democrats are "more centrist" and cater to more corporate interests.

"But they also care about the people as well, the working people," she said. "Whereas socialist Democrats are more about community."

jesse-wtf

[–] robotElder2@hexbear.net 28 points 1 day ago (1 children)

By 'working people' she means whites. By 'community' she means non whites.

[–] invalidusernamelol@hexbear.net 2 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

It's like opening a pack of Pokemon cards and every one is just Pikachu, except Pikachu is racism and the card pack is the white middle class.

[–] DornerStan@lemmygrad.ml 22 points 1 day ago

It's becoming ever more clear to the average working person that neither party supports their interests. Without a materialist explanation and socialist solution, they're left to pull what levers they've been given to try and make change. And of course in a bourgeois democracy, those levers aren't connected to anything.

"Dems were in power and shit got worse, might as well vote for the not-Democrat" isn't much less rational than any other individualized electoral strategy.

It's generally a bad use of time and resources to try to sway the most backward workers, like ardent Trump supporters (and obviously this is even more true with the managerial and petty bourgeoisie that make up a large part of his base).

But we can't expect the average worker to come to us with a coherent, perfect ideology. There's all sorts of algorithmically-generated brainworms that we're gonna have to help people move past. My experience from trying to organize different workplaces is a there's massive heterogeneity of obscure, often internally-contradicting, beliefs from person to person. There isn't much in the way of a common epistemological framework for people to use, so they're left to whatever their Facebook or tiktok algorithm feeds them.

Isolate the backward, educate the intermediate, organize the advanced.

[–] queermunist@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I'm sure people will take this to mean "we can reach them!" but I just take this to mean they're just anti-incumbent. They voted for Biden because they were voting against Trump. They voted for Trump because they were voting against Biden/Harris. Now they'll vote for anything as long as they're voting against Trump. "I don't like the current thing and would like to try New Thing." That's it.

[–] haxboar@hexbear.net 9 points 1 day ago

I feel like the venn-diagram of "anti-incumbant" and "reachable" is almost a circle. People know that neither party is helping them, but Americans have been gaslit into thinking that the only method for change they have is by voting for one of the two parties.

I think we are pretty desperate to try something new, but don't know how.

[–] Moomoo_Milk@hexbear.net 14 points 1 day ago

These people have zero coherent ideology.

[–] CommunistCuddlefish@hexbear.net 12 points 1 day ago (1 children)

I feel so left out of opinion polls because they always want people who voted biden in 2020 but not kamala in 2024

And like, I didn't vote for Holocaust Harris in 2024 because of Palestine, but I didn't vote for Biden in 2020 because of Iraq. They're excluding me for being too correct.

[–] Runcible@hexbear.net 10 points 1 day ago

They aren't interested in opinions that require the party to change

[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 11 points 1 day ago (2 children)

going from Biden to Trump means I implicitly do not give a shit about anything they "think"

[–] free_casc@hexbear.net 21 points 1 day ago (1 children)

It seems you care more about your own moral superiority than understanding how to build a socialist movement. The US working class can be dumb as rocks (read settlers etc), but the attitude in your comment isn't really any different than any corporate liberal Democrat in DC.

You're both sending the message "my way is the right way" and sticking your heads in the sand instead of showing real leadership and building our movement.

[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

i still don't care what they think from an electoral perspective. I'm out engaging with people on the ground, that's where I care. Some random ass surveys do not mean anything

[–] GiorgioBoymoder@hexbear.net 13 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Whether it's important to reach these people would be answered by what proportion of voters they represent, but the article seems to leave out that information.

[–] comrade_pibb@hexbear.net 5 points 1 day ago

yeah, but I'm still not going to try to read the tea leaves about what this block of incoherent voters think. It's meaningless

[–] jack@hexbear.net 17 points 1 day ago

moralism is a dead end

[–] miz@hexbear.net 9 points 1 day ago
[–] kisstrel@hexbear.net 9 points 1 day ago

Or maybe they're unreachable burger reich demons

What do I know