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As the title says, how often do you admit you're wrong? Is it different when it's a factual dispute versus something more subjective?

I make an effort to concede early if I'm in error. I think because my mother almost never admits fault. She'll fall back to "that's not what I meant" or similar deflections first, and that's really annoying.

The last big factual error I made was about the distance of walking, and that's where I learned about Taxicab Geometry ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxicab_geometry ).

I think some people believe admitting fault is a sign of weakness, but I find it's more of a power move. It takes strength to do it, and people can tell when you're sweating and desperate. Usually it leads to resolving the conflict faster and cheaper, too.

(I expect some people will feel the urge to reply they're never wrong. I'll file that under never admits fault.)

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[–] Strider@lemmy.world 43 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

All the time. People tend not to take it well but that seems their problem.

Also it's one of the things destroying politics.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 9 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Also it’s one of the things destroying politics.

That's often the previous stop on this train of thought. There are maga people that in their secret heart know they've made a mistake, but they struggle to come to terms with that. Though that also carries the fear of losing all their social bonds and being rejected by the group.

[–] Strider@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Exactly, it's two sided trained behavior. On one side, no guilt is admitted leading to all downsides of never learning and on the other side there's a ruthless expectation. It can never work.

[–] KoboldCoterie@pawb.social 2 points 1 month ago

It doesn't help that any time a politician changes their opinion on something, the other side jumps on them for it and accuses them of flip-flopping. In reality, changing a view when presented with a compelling argument or new information is a good thing but they use it as ammunition to attack each other, so of course everyone just sticks to their guns no matter what...

[–] Nibodhika@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (3 children)

Every time someone is able to convince me I'm wrong, which is not hard to do, I tend to consider things logically, so empirical evidence that I'm wrong will make me flip immediately. Unfortunately most people use very flawed arguments like trying to appeal to emotions or strawmaning my point (or one of the many fallacious things we all have to deal online). And that will not convince me, in fact it only proves you have absolutely no argument. Which is very unfortunate because I'm wrong quite often, and it only takes one person pointing at actual evidence that I'm wrong to make me realize that, yet the majority of my disagreements online end up at an impasse with the person refusing to find common ground to build the debate up.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 5 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Unfortunately most people use very flawed arguments like trying to appeal to emotions or strawmaning my point (or one of the many fallacious things we all have to deal online). And that will not convince me, in fact it only proves you have absolutely no argument

One thing I struggle to remember sometimes is someone can make a bad argument, but what they're arguing for can still be true.

I used to work with a guy that would argue with me, and sometimes at the end he'd be like "I actually agree with your point, but I wanted you to be right for solid reasons"

Of course, it's also very common for people to be making bad arguments because they're just feeling stuff, and they're pulling together whatever words come close to capturing that right now.

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I try to express my wrongness in a casual way in front of my child or children in general. I aim for them to take away that it's not a big deal and there is no big stakes in always being right. And if I am right I try to argue facts and attempt to leave personal stakes out of it.

[–] TrickDacy@lemmy.world 8 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I actually usually admit if I'm wrong, but I think I don't if it's a thing where it's obvious I was wrong and the other party is holding it over my head. It's a character flaw but also I don't really know how to deal with that situation because admitting I'm wrong to a person doing that, in my mind, gives them permission to blame me for anything else adjacent to the situation, which is usually unfair.

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[–] wador@lemmy.zip 7 points 1 month ago

My mother never admitted that she was wrong. I don't want to be like that to my kids or any one else.

I can get defensive, but with some after thought I will admit I was wrong.

[–] TryingToBeGood@reddthat.com 7 points 1 month ago (1 children)
[–] Anti_Iridium@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Yeah, I scream it from the rooftops (figuratively).

[–] RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago

When I'm wrong ... I admit I'm wrong. No shame in being wrong about something.

[–] vinnymac@lemmy.world 6 points 1 month ago

One of the best interview questions rarely asked. I hate working with people who have to always be right.

[–] neidu3@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

As often as I am actually wrong.

Tap for spoilerWhich of course is NEVER!

[–] Iconoclast@feddit.uk 5 points 1 month ago (2 children)

I can't think of a single time someone has admitted to having been wrong about something and me thinking less of them because it. It's always the opposite yet it's still so painful being in that spot yourself.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I was talking about this with someone a while ago and they suggested that some people's lived experiences have been more... abusive. Like as a child if they made a mistake their parents treated them like shit. Now they have that untreated trauma deep in their personality. When they make a mistake like making a reservation at the wrong time, they subconsciously think it's going to be like when their dad screamed at them, smacked them, and sent them to bed without dinner. So they lie and prevaricate to avoid that.

I don't know how often that kind of early childhood trauma is the root of the behavior, but if that is happening that's really sad.

[–] FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 month ago

I have my suspicions that my ex is like this because of bad parenting.

When my baby nephew tries to stack his stacking rings, my family praises him even if he has the order wrong. It's how babies learn.

I suspect that people who can't admit when they're wrong had parents who told them not to do a task unless they could do it right the first time

[–] meco03211@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

Never had someone with a martyr complex "admit to being wrong" about something completely inconsequential or stupid? If so, I envy you.

[–] givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

All the time...

Being wrong is the pre-requiest to learning something.

If you live your whole life only running into shit you already know, what the fuck is the point?

What makes it confusing is someone that lived a life like that, is gonna accumulate a shit ton of random knowledge. To the point people think of them as a "know it all" when it's just the normal result of an inquisitive life.

Basically, the people that can't admit they're wrong never learn anything except how to keep arguing longer than the person trying to help them. There's people walking around everyday that think they understand things, because everyone who knows better also knows explaining ain't worth the time.

[–] IWW4@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 month ago

Whenever I am wrong.

[–] Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 4 points 1 month ago

I'll let you know when it happens... /s

Just kidding. I'm not THAT big of an asshole.

[–] RBWells@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

Whenever I am wrong. So pretty often, since I learn best by making mistakes.

[–] Malyca@lemmy.zip 4 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I try very hard to never be wrong, but, like all of us, I fail often. I have a scholar brain, I love learning new things, so if I'm wrong that's an opportunity to learn something, makes it easier for me I guess.

[–] nilzen@lemmy.world 4 points 1 month ago

wrong? what does that mean?

[–] blackbrook@mander.xyz 4 points 1 month ago (1 children)

I'd like to believe I do it every time I recognize that I am wrong. Equally as important, I think, it to constantly admit, to yourself, and to others where appropriate, that you could be wrong.

The fallibility of human memory and reasoning is enormous, even for very smart people. I think few people properly appreciate this. If you develop that appreciation it is really trivial to admit you are wrong, it's like admitting that you ate.

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[–] MuttMutt@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Quite a bit. It's the adult thing to do.

[–] kinther@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

When I am wrong and there is evidence?

It makes sense to me, because you learned something.

[–] TargaryenTKE@lemmy.world 3 points 1 month ago

Whenever I become aware of it, either through my own realization or someone else pointing it out. I'll always double check before coming out and saying it, but if my first stance is actually wrong, I have no problem admitting it

[–] Kolanaki@pawb.social 3 points 4 weeks ago

We'll find out if I am ever wrong. 😤

[–] determinist@kbin.earth 3 points 1 month ago

Whenever I am wrong.

[–] Corporal_Punishment@feddit.uk 3 points 1 month ago

All the time.

If i make a mistake I own upto it like an adult

[–] bluGill@fedia.io 3 points 1 month ago

Often, but I still constantly realize that I was proven wrong a few days before and I held on to the wrong opinion rather than admit it. It is a constant battle to honestly admit when I am wrong to people.

[–] Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 1 month ago

When ever i am wrong

[–] Rhaedas@fedia.io 2 points 1 month ago

What can be also hard is to admit that you don't know, but that can be turned into a good thing by admitting your ignorance and either listening to someone's reasoning, or together try to find an answer. Especially with kids, part of being a parent was learning with them as you seeked out answers to a simple question that you weren't sure about. A subset of the XKCD Ten Thousand. Being right or appearing to know something isn't always as good as the journey to get to the actual facts.

[–] DeepDown@leminal.space 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I noticed some specific women liked me more when I would do that. So of course I made that my entire personality.

[–] FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

I admit I'm wrong when I'm wrong. If I'm factually wrong, I say I stand corrected. If I do something bad, I apologize. I fear it looks like I'm bragging right now but it shouldn't be something to brag about, it should be what everyone does. It's what mature people do.

People who can't admit they're wrong completely close themselves off to learning or growing. They think they're protecting themselves from shame by making excuses that they meant something else or it's someone else's fault they did a bad thing, but oftentimes they suffer even worse consequences by behaving that way

On the flipside, though, the other extreme is also bad. You shouldn't concede that you're wrong when you're not wrong

[–] snooggums@piefed.world 2 points 1 month ago

When it comes up and I am actually wrong.

I would guess a few dozen times a year since I work in a complicated field where we take our best guess and sometimes it isn't right so admitting being wrong and doing things differently has better outcomes than digging in heels.

There are a lot of people I've known who really focus on other people admitting they were wrong but somehow they are never at fault themselves.

[–] taiyang@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Since having kids, anytime I make a mistake or jump to a conclusion, I try to model for them how to say sorry and make it right.

That said, I don't make mistakes that often; I'm much more likely to just say I don't know or I have no opinion. I think it's most important to teach people it's ok to not know or have enough information to make a judgement.

[–] jtrek@startrek.website 3 points 1 month ago

I remember once when I was a kid, my uncle asked me something or other. I dithered for a bit, and then admitted I didn't actually know. He said something really nice about how it's much better to just say you don't know than to dig deeper into bullshit. Really stuck with me, for some reason.

[–] Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 2 points 1 month ago

Only 3-5 times a day.

(More would make my good reputation go away)

[–] clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

To children, I try to admit it every time. I don't want them to grow up thinking that adults are always correct.

To adults, it depends on them. If they are stable and reasonable they I'll do it, but not when the admission is itself grounds for derision.

[–] dontbelievethis@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 month ago

Depending on who I am talking to.

If it's a person that never admits to being wrong I will have my fun and just say whatever. Doesn't matter with those people.

If it is a person which admits fault, being wrong... Makes themselves vulnerable in general, I do te same.

But I got burned one time to much to still treat assholes as something other then a waste of time.

[–] HubertManne@piefed.social 2 points 1 month ago

I kinda did today. Was talking to a guy on the weekend and I was wrong on a thing but not sure if I will see him again or remember to mention it. Somewhat regularly anyway. Whats funny online is you can meet a certain type where you can cede part of an argument and say something is wrong and they will go with. Well then you must be all wrong. Usually its pretty hard to converse with them after that as they will obsess over the one point and its like ugh. Its a good indicator for me though.

[–] hraegsvelmir@ani.social 2 points 1 month ago (2 children)

More and more as time goes by. I can definitely recognize that there have been times where I would have dug in and tried to argue my way out to the bitter end, but now I find myself just saying "You know, I don't really want to waste my time with this" and just cutting my losses. Sometimes it'll get a "You know what, my bad," and sometimes I just realize I never really had anything worthwhile to contribute, and just see myself out of the discussion. I've had shit takes called out in the past, including on topics I thought myself fairly knowledgeable about. Before, I would have been right back in there looking up sources and trying to eke out a "win" in those sorts of circumstances. These days, I'd rather just concede the point early on and go about my life. I don't have free time to go wasting entrenching myself to defend a position that's already benn demonstrated to be untenable and/or just completely incorrect.

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[–] guy@piefed.social 2 points 1 month ago
[–] zlatiah@lemmy.world 2 points 1 month ago

More often than I'm actually wrong

Which... is a problem. I think I learned to do this in order to not offend bosses, might have something to do with my field of work...

[–] YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 2 points 1 month ago

As often as I am. Which has become less common in my old age.

[–] AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 2 points 1 month ago

When I'm wrong, I always admit it immediately.

It just hasn't happened yet /s

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