Do you want it to be so complicated that no one you know in real life is able to use it for more than two weeks before they make some kind of mistake or change that deletes their entire message history and identity? Matrix

Do you want a slim chance that friends and family might use it, but you have to listen to privacy nutjobs tell you your app is a CIA NSA PsyOp and you might as well cc: potus(at)whitehouse(dot)gov all your messages, it's run by an american non-profit obviously it can't be trusted? Signal

This is how I explained Matrix to my mom: its like an email address, but for chat. You can chat at me, even if we aren't using the same server, like someone can send an email from Gmail to Hotmail. She got set up and promptly went back to texting me every dang time.

Signal (but actually Molly)

XMPP is the standard messaging protocol. I recommend Conversations for android, but of course any worthwhile protocol has multiple independent frontends.

I actually prefer XMPP. It's also less of a hassle to set up than Matrix and the protocol is much more mature. There are still issues, but it's rather functional for audio and video calls (if you're using a supported client).

Edit: For clients, I use Cheogram on Android and Profanity (which is a TUI) or DinoX (for calls) on Linux.

So, I host a Matrix Stack and I bridge to Signal (and Discord). It's the best of both worlds -- all my messages funnel through one application.

Seeing as you're using Lemmy/PieFed, I'm going to guess you've got a handle on how federation works. I'd suggest Matrix.

I'd go with Matrix. I use it as my main messenger and I've actually set up my own self-hosted instance. It works perfectly for both 1:1 conversations and managing my tabletop RPG groups. Voice chat through Element Call is fantastic – honestly, it's a solid alternative to Discord.

What I really appreciate is the control I get from self-hosting: I have complete autonomy over the server and data for both my personal messaging and community spaces. For RPG campaigns, the room structure and customizable permission system are ideal. The voice quality is reliable enough for long gaming sessions, and everything feels more private and independent compared to relying on Discord.

Signal is a centralized, US-based service which requires your phone number (thus your real identity, IE name and address), has social networking graphs of everyone you talk to, and must forward that information to the US government when asked, as well as (by law) not tell you that they've been asked to do so. During the Obama era, 60 NSLs were issued for this private information every single day.

People overlook its privacy concerns for the same reason they do with apple: it has a shiny interface and is easy to use, and makes people very attached to it. Behind all that, is a surveillance network that its creators have explicitly said they do not want it to be able to run in a decentralized, private manner.

It has a long history of privacy offenses below (such as refusing to publish its server's source code for years, its reliance on other US tech services (amazon, google), US-government funding, and a US-defense-tank friendly administration) which get ignored or shouted down by many of those above. See the article below.

Why not signal.

Pretty much any alternative is better, as long as its not hosted in a five-eyes country, and especially if it doesn't require phone numbers or real identities like signal does.

I personally have been using SimpleX for friends and real life contacts, and Matrix for larger more anonymous group chats.

Both ! Use Matrix with tech savy friends and Signal with your family

Both are options that I'm personally not too fond of. Signal is not self hostable, not all that private (still better than whatsapp atleast), and it's servers are located in the States. Does have some FOSS clients like molly atleast.

Matrix is a bit more complicated in my opinion. While the protocol itself is fine, the history behind is what makes me not want to use it personally. Namely, it being project that emerged from Amdocs, an Israeli telecommunications company previously suspected of eavesdropping and spying on people. While open-source and self-hostable, it has a network effect going on where everyone registers on the main instance and self-hosting is apparently incredibly resource intensive. Plus, most instances require you to give an email.

Personally, I'd recommend looking into GNU Jami and XMPP. XMPP may not have encryption as a built-in component of the protocol in the way that it is with Matrix, it nonetheless exists as an option and there's plenty of no-email-required instances. XMPP is also less resource intensive to self host should you wish to do that.

Jami doesn't work with servers but is instead distributed and peer-to-peer along with being libre software. Only knock against this one is that the desktop client is based on electron, which isn't a problem for me personally but there are people who're nonetheless opinionated about that.

Signal is more stable & simple to set up. So for its intended use, getting people to actually talk to me on it, it's better.

Matrix is obviously better as a Discord replacement. It doesn't require a phone number which is also good. Not centrally managed so easier to decouple from big tech corruption. So it is better in those ways.

Matrix is just far too convoluted. Signal seems to be the easiest one to use. SimpleX is the best.

Signal. Requires little technical knowledge, other then knowing about end to end encryption and why its important

I would like to use matrix since if anything, I think its cool. But noone I know would be remotely interested.

XMPP

I've been using XMPP the past two decades. I use it because I haven't found something that's better.

xmpp + omemo. Signal is centralized, matrix leaks tons of metadata to sync between services...

Signal. Matrix was made by Israeli spyware company Amdocs and when an employee was asked about it after the split to a UK company they pretended like Amdocs wasn't caught in multiple global spyware scandals already.

I use matrix with a bunch of my friends to replace discord and and it is quite good. The main draw for me was the awesome client options like fluffy chat, commet, and sable.

@jksalcedo

Without a doubt, #DeltaChat: open source, free, and privacy-friendly.
Matrix is a good option, but it’s too complicated for ordinary people who aren’t tech-savvy, while Signal relies on Amazon and Google’s servers...

I use both. No, really.

If one's intent is to connect with as many people as possible, having as many messaging/real chat apps as possible is a good idea (imo).

That's why I have WA, DC, Stoat, Signal, Matrix and IRC.

What really helps with such decisions is your use model and threat model. Then a nice matrix that compares them all. Haven't come across a good updated comparison in a while. Would be good to see a shared link here.

I feel uneasy about Signal being an app centralized in the USA, but it is the only one streamlined enough to be usable by non tech-savvy friends and family. I wonder if it will fall prey to Chat Control in Europe, so the time to explore alternatives will soon be upon us.

So far, I have heard of XMPP, Matrix, Delta chat and SimpleX. Never got friends to switch to XMPP or Matrix for more than one conversation, so I guess we're just f*cked.

Signal requires your phone number, which is not only quite bad for privacy, but also easy to block 2FA for your government if it decides it doesn't like private chats.

Both. Signal for friends and family. Matrix for fedi friends.

Currently using Signal. If Canada passes Bill C-22 Signal will leave so I'll have to find another messenger app.

SimpleX seems like a good one. Doesn't use Google notifications which is great for degoogled devices. Set it to check every 10 minutes instead of constantly and it's very easy on the battery. Messages come in right away if the app is open, such as when having a conversation with a contact.

Edit: SimpleX is also very easy to use, as simple as Signal. This is important to get non-tech people on-board.

As an actual usable service with feature forward apps? Signal. But I prefer the relative discretion of matrix. I like more layers between me and the rest of the world in my private communications

Simplex

I prefer matrix for two main reasons:

• I can host my own server (and I do)
• It's not centralized

As a bonus it has briddes for almost anything you can think of, so I use the signal bridge.

Only because nobody answered with this one:

IRC

Decentralized and an open protocol. Client setup to connect is not so straightforward, but it's a one and done. Very robust.

I'm allergic to centralized communication schemes, though I do use signal to communicate with one person.

I want to research some of the other suggestions that have been brought up, so thank you for the post!

Delta chat and session (RIP): they dont ask for accounts or ID to chat

Matrix, Signal's too centralised and XMPP is good just reserved for important use, not as popular, easy to use or convenient as Matrix.

Completely different use cases.

Matrix is shared interest groups.

Signal is for personal communication.

well what are your criteria? Asking for advice without saying what you need isn't tremendously useful and, as has happened, mostly just results in people recommending whatever they personally use for whatever reasons.

@jksalcedo Delta chat is the best

I've come to distrust Matrix, the metadata leaking is one thing but then combine that with the fact that .org is basically the default server and you almost have to federate with it, and they were started as an Amdocs project before spinning off into "the matrix foundation," and Amdocs is Israeli, and while I don't have PROOF they're connected with Mossad I'd rather not chance it.

Plus, the apps all sucked last I used them, Element was the best and it was still buggy as all hell, and the Linux app is just an electron wrapper, and it was too hard to use for most of my "normal" friends (I agree, they should get good, but they do not get good, what should I do hold 'em at gunpoint and install Fedora, my options are limited). And the rooms had such a bad CP spam problem they stopped them from being publically searchable, you (now still?) have to know the room's addr to join. Even still, with that CP problem, it becomes hard to reccomend family/friends to make an account. I don't want to see that, I don't want them to have to see that, and I don't want them to think I want to see that and judge me because of spam in the RasPi room because I'm the guy that recommended the app, I don't need that in my life.

Signal requiring phone numbers is also not my favorite, and the single point of failure is not the best either. Better than Matrix imo, but still. Also last I used it they still supported SMS and when a contact would delete Signal without deleting their account, the message would still try to deliver through Signal instead of defaulting back to SMS, so I'd have to switch my default to Messenger every time I wanted to talk to them and back to Signal when I was done. That was annoying.

Now happily using Delta Chat, easy onboarding for "normals," low (no?) metadata leaks, webXDC seems cool, p2p video/audio calling, multi-relay support for resiliency, groups (but anyone can kick anyone, they're meant for known contacts or family more than matrix-like rooms), no discoverability so nobody gets your acct by just having your phone number or etc (so my friend doesn't have to worry about their abusive ex finding them on it like on IG or Snapchat), due to those last two things it doesn't seem to have the same CP problem as Matrix rooms, channels are pretty neat, you can share location for increments between 30min and 24hr, bunch of cool stuff!

Signal. The app is miles better. I do use matrix too tho for some communities and for keeping an eye for the development

I think Matrix sucks honestly. Issues with encryption making messages unreadable, outdated clients that all have or lack different features, extremely slow development, not prioritizing features that would pull users from apps like Discord and make it a more attractive platform for the average person.

Encryption is cool and good and necessary, but Matrix will never be mainstream and even something relatively new like Fluxer, which is an unencrypted and open source Discord clone, is going to be more popular once it gets out of beta if it isn't already. Strictly due to usability.

They serve different purposes because Matrix is built more for communities and Signal for instant messaging. But if you're deciding between any sort of encrypted messaging app, I strongly prefer DeltaChat, which is basically a WhatsApp clone in the way it looks and functions. It is not good for large communities because it doesn't have "servers" and "channels" and all users have the same authority. Meaning anyone can invite and kick anyone else from any chat. But it beats Signal since you don't need to give it any personal information.

Signal. I use it with frs and family. No need for hosting Matrix for now.

Signal is more like WhatsApp, Element/Matrix is aiming to be more like Telegram or Discord.