this post was submitted on 20 May 2026
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The pacing of releases was whack.
Too long between 1 and 2, not long enough between 2 and 3.
I also heard that 2 and 3 were basically the same movie, and that they weren't even that good.
I mean, 1 didn’t make me crave sequels, even if they were soon available.
It was a fun action movie, sure. A visual spectacle. But not a world I felt invested in.
I felt like it was a world where a loooot of effort was put into certain aspects and then other parts of the world were neglected. Seemed like a waste of potential. For example some of the visual effects are kinda good even today, not just cause of the fidelity but also cause it seems like one cohesive piece. Talking about cohesion, the first and second halfs of this movie are two different movies, both with the storytelling and the visual effects and i like the first half muuuch more. Feels like if the movie focused on the Na'vi more it wouldve been better. An actually interesting story about slowly fitting more and more into a different culture got turned into some generic about natives fighting back, which you can do but then use one of the thousand examples irl, dont waste such a good oppurtunity to make something special. This is why i think so few fancy, high-budget movies tell good stories, without visual effects and huge sets you actually have to tell a story worth hearing to make your movie special. This of course doesnt mean visually captivating movies cant be narratively engaging, im just saying its rare.
That’s overcomplicating it.
Maybe that’s the issue.
The characters just… weren’t charismatic/engaging. I can’t name a single one. The world was intricate, and exotic, and… kind of superficial?
I think the other Avatar is a perfect contrast.
Iroh. Zuko. Toph. Azula. Korra, Tenzin, Zaheer. To me, these character are instantly memorable because they were so distinct in purpose and culture, even extending to minor characters like Suki.
And take bending. It’s a concept as simple as a rock, but they embed it in everything, from mundane chores to personalities and cycles to martial arts scenes. They never need to explain anything about it in words or narration.
Hence it’s be cool if the James Cameron Avatar characters where sharp, so distinct you could cut yourself on them. If their nature synergy, dependence on unobtanium or whatever was really woven into mundane life and such, to make it feel like an important system. There’s nothing wrong with another “natives fighting back” story, but I didn’t feel anything pull me into the struggle.
Yeah, I think movies could really be used to great effect in sci fi and fantasy where setting is a major character, but it's rarely done. I understand why, it's a more artsy thing to do, but one that demands large budgets. However I do think it's something Avatar should have leaned more into and it's something I really liked in the Dune movies.
My understanding is that it was an unexpected success and it was used as a technology demonstration for Alita. However Alita was much less successful.
Number 1 was a retelling of Ferngully the Last Rainforest. https://spotlightonfilm.com/2012/05/13/avatar-vs-ferngully-the-last-rainforest-a-case-of-plagiarism/
As someone who hasn't watched FernGully (but should), I'm increasingly skeptical of these types of "plagiarism" comparisons between movies. Lindsay Ellis recently broke down the "Aladdin was stolen" narrative and compellingly showed "it's complicated", and more obviously, YMS five years ago fucking eviscerated the then-popular argument that The Lion King was a ripoff of Kimba the White Lion.
As someone who had FernGully on VHS, there are marked similarities, though it's not exactly 1-to-1. The main conflict is resource extraction, although instead of a gung-ho colonel we get Tim Curry as literal pollution. The protagonist gets transformed to fit in with the locals, but it's an accident by one of the locals instead of deliberate choice. Instead of a cranky Sigourney Weaver, we get a spastic Robin Williams as a bat.
Overall, Avatar is closer to FernGully than to a lot of other going-native movies. Environmental conservation is the driving theme of both films.
Was Kimba also based on Hamlet or something? As far as I'm concerned that plotline is in the public domain. Or is it just using lions to tell the story that was supposedly stolen?
Also, how could Aladdin be "stolen" when it obviously takes direct inspiration from several stories in 1001 Arabian Nights? Are people claiming that it was stolen from some other story that was inspired by the same book?
I see. From wikipedia:
So it seems the Thief and the Cobbler was based in part on the Arabian Nights, and the original plot was also from Arab folklore.
So in other words, Aladdin is merely based on the same work of classic literature, which I believe is public domain. So allegations of plagiarism are foolish, unless all references to Arab folklore are now off the table too.
That's pretty funny. I might watch the video another day. From your comment I gather enough to conclude that the main premise of the accusation is "Shakespeare told by animals," and I concur that that's laughable.
It's somehow baser than you suspect for the accusations against The Lion King – but more complex for Aladdin. I'd highly recommend Lindsay Ellis' video for a history lesson exploring the nuances. I'll at least spoil that Kimba has nothing to do with Shakespeare and that whatever level of tepid, token generosity you're willing to grant the plagiarism accusations, it's dumber than that.
So the plot wasn't even similar, and people were just upset that the characters were lions? That is indeed even more laughable.
Some people must really get off on hating on the Lion King because I've also heard it called racist for the following reasons:
The characters have African-sounding names. (Um, what, would it be somehow less racist to name them "Steve" and "Nancy"?)
They didn't employ black voice actors in enough main roles. (Mufasa was voiced by a black man).
The hyenas were allegedly depictions of racist tropes. (As a kid watching the Lion King, I never made this supposed connection that the hyenas were ostensibly caricatures of black people; they were just hyenas. The critics who apparently perceived that connection are racist for doing so).
I've also heard people criticize it for ostensibly promoting monarchy (it's a fucking story, and it's based on a plot by shakespeare about a monarchy. I don't think the intent was to make a political statement about the advantages of monarchy)
Anyway, I read the backstory behind The Thief and The Cobbler and it sounds like all the nuance has less to do with Aladdin and more to do with Nasrudin. It's not Aladdin's fault it took the producers 40 years to put out a subpar film. And it's not like Miramax owned the rights to Arabian Nights or even the "Arabian aesthetic." It might be complex, but none of that complexity is Aladdin's problem.
The Aladdin bit is that there was another project in the Disney pipeline by a famed director that also had a lot of Arabian aesthetics, and I think a lot of the people upset are bitter that the other one just didn't turn out very well.
You should watch the Lindsay Ellis video, it's pretty good.
TIL that the Arabian aesthetic can only be one person's intellectual property /s
And yeah, I just read about The Thief and the Cobbler. The reason it didn't turn out well was because it was in production for 40 years, changed plots/themes/characters multiple times, was started and finished by different producers, and there was a falling out early on with the owners of the original story it was supposed to be based on.
So that had nothing to do with Aladdin incidentally also borrowing themes and tropes from 1001 Arabian Nights.
You can't just take 40 years to do a shitty job at something and then blame someone else for taking less time to do a better job at something only vaguely similar...
I saw both. Avatar is a marvel of VFX, but the story is definitely ferngully.
Interesting.
I’d bet it’s an example of coincidental convergence. Take the median/average of the tropes for that premise, and I can see writers coming up with a similar story.
Or dances with wolves
I didn't even know there was a 3rd one, I thought everyone was talking about the second one this whole time.
Amazing VFX though 🤌💋
The end action sequence was just the end action sequences from the first 2 films stacked on top of each other.
The thing is, it was still visually gorgeous, and I loved watching it in the theatre. Avatar is eye candy, and there's nothing wrong with that.
Oh - and I do think the idea of trees with shared root systems forming a planet-wide distributed consciousness is actually pretty awesome sci-fi.
This is what frustrates me. The Avatar universe has the bones to have some amazing lore and world building, but really missed on execution.
Spot-on.
They are stellar if you like worldbuilding and pretty worlds. They are ok to good story-wise. In terms of worldbuilding, for me, they stand on the same level as the LotR movies (not the books mind you).
Oh yeahhh, they made a third one too. I forgot about that.
It was basically 2 part 2
I made it through maybe 10 minutes of the second one before turning it off because the plot was just that fucking dumb.