this post was submitted on 06 Feb 2025
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A collection of some classic Lemmy memes for your enjoyment

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cross-posted from: https://lemmy.world/post/25133597

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[โ€“] umbrella@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago (1 children)

i generally lean ML, but both of these are stateless to me? isnt this really about horizontal vs hierarchical power?

[โ€“] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 days ago

If we are to agree with Engels, Communes (or cooperatives) consist entirely of Petite Bourgeoisie, unless there is no interaction outside said commune. Trade between communes implies each commune wishing to get more out of the trade, which implies differences in material wealth in communes that can then escalate into Capitalism. It isn't what we think of as a State, but some form of armed millitia must be maintained to enshrine ownership within a commune, and not outside it, ergo a state enforcing class distinctions.

Really, though, I think the term "stateless" brings ideological baggage rather than logical. What's important is the structures themselves, not how we wish to label them. Conversations around "true" Communism or whatnot inevitably fall into ideological debate based in idealism, rather than a logical analysis of material conditions.