this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2025
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Gaming

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[–] NotASharkInAManSuit@lemmy.world 39 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (13 children)

I wasn’t expecting this post to bring out this kind of animosity in people. Jesus fuckin’ christ.

Video games are not a public service, there is no such thing as a 100% universally enjoyed video game for a reason. It’s ok that there are different types of video games, folks, be them too hard or too easy for your tastes, it’s kind of stupid to throw these kinds of stones about it.

I mean, is every book supposed to be palatable to everyone? Are we all supposed to feel the exact same way about every piece of art? This is like being mad that Guardians of The Galaxy involved sci-fi and super heroes and wasn’t a WWII documentary because that’s what you’d have preferred to watch.

[–] stevedice@sh.itjust.works 13 points 5 days ago

I tried Dark Souls, got my ass kicked, tried again, got my ass kicked again, went "huh, guess it's not for me" and moved on with my life. I truly don't get this mentality where people think they're entitled to play a game that was clearly not designed for them.

[–] okmko@lemmy.world 7 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago) (2 children)

Games, like movies, are easily consumed but difficult to create. As a result, everyone and their grandma can critique them and publish on the Internet which only further self-selects for the highly opinionated to do so.

But not all opinions are equal. You can be well studied in your field and generally intelligent, but if you don't have a relevant background in the humanities and the sciences, you can have complex reasoning but without having the depth, the breadth, and the relevance in the analysis.

Case in point the first replier. The analogy is fine and the deductive reasoning is self-consistent, but they didn't show the relevance to game design. (Ie. Why must the author make the text size bigger for people who can't enjoy smaller text, and why must the same apply to games.)

That's why gamers seem to be notorious for having takes that miss the trees for the forest.

(I am aware that I'm very much at risk of committing this very error with my post.)

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[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 25 points 5 days ago (1 children)

I like to relax when I play. My days of stressing out over games ended when I had stress in real life.

[–] Tangent5280@lemmy.world 2 points 4 days ago

Preach. Problems of my childhood became like wallpaper when I got adulthood problems. I used to stress out when I couldn't get past a video game mission.

[–] m532@lemmy.ml 50 points 6 days ago (11 children)

Reading this thread has re-confirmed that gatekeepers are a blight on humanity.

I will cheat in your sacred games and you can't stop me. I'll make my own rules. What are you gonna do about it, break into my house and steal my computer?

[–] dovahking@lemmy.world 37 points 6 days ago (2 children)

If a game is particularly hard, I'll use mods or cheats to make it easier. Gamers who sweat for difficulty can play it as hard as they want. I just want to experience the story, even if my play style goes against the creator's vision.

[–] audaxdreik@pawb.social 15 points 6 days ago

This is all fine and good, it really as.

I hate to keep overextending the restaurant metaphor, but it's the difference between demanding a world class chef be prepared to make a number of different substitutions on the spot to suit your individual tastes vs. taking the dish home in a doggy bag and then slathering it with ketchup.

It's fine. There's no law against it. It doesn't hurt anyone else (assuming we're not talking about multiplayer here). No one has to care. No one does. Cheating and mods are a great way for you as an individual to tailor a more personalized experience to your tastes with the tools you have available.

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[–] Melonpoly@lemmy.world 21 points 6 days ago (21 children)

I don't think you're getting the point here. If you buy a game you can do whatever you want with it. Same goes with developers, it's their creation and they can do whatever they want with it. It doesn't have to please everyone.

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[–] Credibly_Human@lemmy.world 18 points 6 days ago

For me in Cyberpunk, I hated the breach protocol, and hated how by the time you get the fancy gear, the game is done (never meeting at embers btw).

As a result, on my second playthrough I removed breech protocol completely and 10x'd experience. Was a much more fun experience.

I'm so appreciative of games where that is possible. Otherwise its just a slog for no reason in what is supposed to be an entertainment product.

I also like Atomfalls difficulty settings where you could really change a lot about how the game played.

[–] audaxdreik@pawb.social 11 points 6 days ago (3 children)

This was never the argument. Cheat all you want, no one cares.

There's just a bunch of people in this topic that read these developer's own words on their artistic takes and were like, "Wow, uh, wrong? Cater your games to me."

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[–] ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 45 points 6 days ago (4 children)

Pathologic 2 Devs

My true desire was for this town to never have a direction or goal marker, not even once. It's intellectually offensive. Who do you have to be thrust a map marker under a free person's nose, saying "Here is your goal. You're too lazy and stupid to figure it out on your own, and I am not without mercy towards lesser minds, so I'll do the work for you. Go there. Go and don't forget to thank me for choosing your goal for you. Love, The Powers That Be.

Oh you died? Here's a debuff. Oh you thought you could save scum to get around the debuff? Ha! That debuff is on all your saves.

Why? We're Russian devs. Life is brutual and hard and so should this game.

[–] The_Picard_Maneuver@piefed.world 23 points 6 days ago (3 children)

You don't know how hard you're selling me on this game.

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[–] SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 15 points 5 days ago (2 children)

All game devs should be forced to play their own games all the way through.

[–] ScrooLewse@lemmy.myserv.one 8 points 5 days ago (1 children)

Oftentimes, devs are practically the only person who can. Especially small hobbyist devs. They'll spend hundreds, if not thousands, of hours playing their own game as they build it and forget they have to then circle back and tune it for people who haven't.

[–] audaxdreik@pawb.social 5 points 5 days ago

Potentially my hottest take, but this is my biggest criticism of Silksong. Even as someone who likes difficult games, I bounced off it. I'll get back to it eventually, I know I'll love it once I crack it, but it was taking a lot of effort I just can't devote to it right now.

I wouldn't necessarily say that it's too difficult or that the difficulty level is bad, but it's overtuned. The devs spent 7 years developing it, playing it, replaying it, adding, tweaking. I believe they made exactly the thing they wanted, but that makes it very dense and intricate and you gotta be on just the absolutely correct wavelength to get there ...

Like Mario Maker level design rules.

[–] inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 17 points 6 days ago (3 children)

Just allow users to mod the game to whatever difficulty they want and don't be dicks about it.

Devs get to stick to their original vision and gamers get to have whatever difficulty they actually want to make things fun for them.

[–] tiramichu@sh.itjust.works 16 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

That's just having actual accessibility and difficulty settings, but with extra steps.

I appreciate the ability to mod games, but decent difficulty options really should be first-class citizens that the developers have put some thought into. Accessibility is important.

[–] CrowAirbrush@lemmy.world 8 points 6 days ago

Let them have their own philosophies, one of the many wonders of life and humankind.

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[–] DupaCycki@lemmy.world 16 points 6 days ago (1 children)

It may be a difficult debate between accessibility, experience and artistic vision. Though considering how many games are made every year, I think we can have difficult games with no easy mode. People who don't enjoy them or can't play them can simply play the thousands of other games.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for accessibility. During my time in the video game industry, I personally paid great attention to options for colorblind people. Unfortunately, pretty much everything else was outside my scope. But it doesn't make any sense to potentially ruin the entire work just so 3 more people on the planet will play it.

If a game is frustrating to play, but I enjoy the story - I watch a playthrough. If a game contains elements that I don't like - it's probably not a game for me, so I move on to other games. If I had some disability that made it very hard or impossible to play some games - okay, fair enough, that would genuinely suck. But again, I'd move on to other games.

Of course, it's possible to add detailed difficulty settings, so that everyone can customize their experience. Mostly a great solution, if the team has the time and resources to implement it well, which isn't always the case. However, it may still interfere with the artistic vision of the developers.

Some movies can cause epileptic seizures due to some of their scenes. Should the authors throw their vision and ideas out the window, because some people cannot safely watch the movie? I'd say no, because that would kind of ruin the whole point of artistic expression. I think we need to be able to depict and express all kinds and forms of art, even if some groups will be unable to experience them.

Maybe some time in the future we'll be able to solve all of this easily and reliably (e.g., some kind of neuralink for people with various conditions). But as of right now, it seems to me that this is practically a non-issue. The impact is incredibly limited, while proposed solutions are either costly, unrealistic or straight up counterintuitive.

[–] Hazzard@lemmy.zip 5 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

Really well put. In general, I find it frustrating how many people use the word "acccessibility" as a means to argue no games like Dark Souls (intentionally having only 1 difficulty for a single intended experience) should ever exist. But to me that's conflating disability-accessibility with a more literal "accessible to more people" type of accessibility. I'd argue "approachable" would be a better word for the latter.

People with motor skill issues or whatever else beat Dark Souls all the time. Heck, fully abled people are intentionally giving themselves equivalent experiences by beating it with dance pads and guitar or drum controllers or whatever else all the time. So the difficulty isn't an accessibility issue, the game is actually pretty slow paced (you can make a decent argument that more recent From Soft titles speed things up to an unreasonable degree for some motor disabilities, but I'm talking about the OG here).

What I hear instead, most of the time, is some version of "I'm a dad, I don't have hours to throw at a boss every night". And my instinctive response, most of the time is simply.... I just don't think you like this game? Getting your ass beat and needing hours and dozens of deaths to learn a boss or beat an area is the intended experience, and you're having it, whether you put those hours in 1 or 12 at a time. If you don't enjoy that, that's just fine, there are millions of great games that don't force you into such a punishing experience. It's a little bit like complaining a puzzle game has too many puzzles in the way of the platforming.

Anyway, my point being, I think centering the From Software "accessibility" conversation around difficulty options, something the devs have determined is a pillar of the game's design that they won't change, prevents us from having a proper conversation about accessibility, in terms of actual disability accessibility. I think there's really cool conversations we should be having about how we can make attack animations more readable to a visually impaired player without compromising on difficulty, for example. None of the Souls games even have so much as a colourblind mode, and we should be putting pressure on From Soft to add something as trivial as that as the franchise explodes in popularity, but "dark souls accessibility" is an entirely unrelated conversation instead, which kinda drowns out any other.

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[–] Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca 16 points 6 days ago* (last edited 6 days ago)

Yoshi P (FFXIV): "Yeah, the game was a huge cultural hit that grew more successful with each expansion, so I thought to myself.. now that we've brought in millions upon millions of players, why not nerf all of the overworld content into absurdity to bring in maybe forty or fifty noobs? So I did. And then I changed all of the classes again once everyone had reached max level. Nobody liked that. So I thought.. why not do it again?"

Zenimax (ESO): "So I just kind of made up whatever and then dialed the difficulty down to about a tenth of what it used to be. Now overworld content is on par with swinging an aluminum bat through a pile of packing peanuts. Also, the Second Era was filled with superhero sky ninjas with lava wings who rode around Tamriel upon lightning horses and mechanical spiders. Deal with it."

[–] Guitarfun@lemmy.world 6 points 5 days ago* (last edited 5 days ago) (2 children)

I'm going to make this point again because it went unnoticed due to the sheer amount of comments, but you wouldn't complain about a Rubik's cube or crossword puzzle being too hard or anything else designed to challenge you. I'd argue that without the difficulty of solving a Rubik's cube that toy would be lost to time. The only reason it still exists today is because it was so hard to solve for children when it was released. Souls games are the same. The only reason we still talk about them and the only reason they gained the popularity that they did is because of the difficulty.

I remember distinctly picking up dark souls on sale on a whim before it started really entering mainstream discussion. The guy working at Gamestop warned me that people kept returning it because it was too hard. I took it home and played it and really learned the mechanics then I brought it to my friends to try. They learned the mechanics and since then we've had an unofficial race to see who can beat the newest FromSoft game fastest. It was the difficulty of the game that made it so addicting. Without that the game would be boring and no one would know what it was in 2025. If you don't believe me install the easy mode mods and come back to let us know what your experience was like.

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[–] Nomorereddit@lemmy.today 10 points 6 days ago (1 children)
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[–] arc99@lemmy.world 13 points 6 days ago

Some poor bastard actually buys a Kojima game to watch the cut scenes.

[–] emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works 10 points 6 days ago

Da Wei: gives step by step instructions only for players to ignore them and get stuck (reading is hard).

Also Da Wei: designs a fast, strong and tough endgame boss only for some psycho to hit-stun her, yeet her around the arena, kill her by fall damage and post it on Bilibili for the lolz.

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