anti-Israel ≠ anti-semitic
this post was submitted on 01 Nov 2023
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While the statement itself is true, it ignores the fact that there has been an uptick in violent antisemitism and islamophobia.
There has been an uptick in violence against groups that the far right Christian white demographic target regularly.
That's not just limited to semites or muslims.
Maybe, but the only reason this is notable is because of an uptick that is from the literal opposite of Christian right wing.
This is true, however there are people who don't like Israel and blame all Jews for what Israel does.
I'm an American Jew. I don't like much of what Israel does. Guess what, though. I can't change Israel's actions. I can speak up, but I have the same say as any other American. It's not like Israel is going to say "this random American Jew said to stop so we've got to stop doing this."
Unfortunately, there are people who seem to think that all Jews are valid targets for anti-Israel sentiment. I've seen people spray painting/vandalizing buildings because they are Jewish temples, businesses, or homes. I've seen people online justify this by claiming that every Jew is a representation of Israel and thus a valid target. I've seen people cheering on Hamas' attack and slaughter of innocents and hoping that more Jews get killed worldwide.
And before anyone comments: No, I don't think Israel killing innocent Palestinians is good. That's one of those things I'd change, but have no power to really affect. I could speak up more with the Palestinian Rights folks, but if people in that crowd are calling for Jews to be killed, do you really think I'm comfortable joining that crowd?
So you can criticize Israel and be fine, but if your "criticism of Israel" is "all Jews need to be held responsible for what Israel has done and should be killed," then you're definitely anti-semitic. (I'm using the generic "you" here.)
Israel is like ISIS. They're hiding their crimes behind a religion while simultaneously not following the religion whatsoever.
Suggesting that israel is Jewish is extremely anti-semitic, but our media will gladly destroy the Jewish name to further their imperialist cause.
Generalization is big issue. Whether its generalizing all Jews as Zionists or all Muslims as terrorists. I blame lack interactions between cultures. Talking to other cultures helps you realize we are all the same at the end of the day. We need to realize most people don't want to inflict suffering and are not your enemy.
True, but I’ve been seeing a fair number of people commenting in a way that shows they don’t know that, and are conflating Israel with all Jewish people everywhere.
Some of that is intentional, it's not new for pro-isreal lobby groups to smack the "antisemitic" label on any public figure who speaks out against the government of Israel, been going on for years.
Obviously actual nazis and antisemitic people suck and should be called out for their bullshit, but the powers that be have also made the problem worse by inaccurately throwing the label on people.
True. There’s also the Zionist push to link Israel with all Jewish people, whether the Jewish people in question want it or not.
Yup, it works as a shield for any criticism for them.
Amen to that brother.
They are deliberately conflating it so that people stay quiet about the genocide.
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Not sure I believe "historic levels". See Pre-WWII America and the American Nazi Party as example. Highly recommend Rachel Maddow's book Prequel for details of how close America came to an alliance with Nazi Germany.
The highest level in decades is still historic without invalidating a prior, higher peak. If anything, it should be a reminder of how bad we were previously so we don't go all in like we did back then.
What's all this "we" shit? My people were Quakers.
I love your oatmeal 🥣
Based on what I can tell antizionism might be reaching "historic levels" though. They arrested hundreds of activists from Jewish Voice for Peace out of the thousands that showed up to protest just a day or two ago. 20.000 people protested for Palestine in SF. The streets were filled in NY, Chicago, Washington, etc. I don't know if there's ever been this much pushback against the occupation in the US, so I'd be willing to believe antizionism might be reaching historic levels. Maybe the dude conveniently got his words mixed up.
I think we're seeing people getting pissed about innocent people dying everywhere, and leaders are tripping over themselves justifying it for those they're allied with.
What does Israel have that requires the western countries to look the other way at this shit when they're appearing to stand up against it elsewhere.
I don't think the West is standing up against it anywhere, it's just a convenient political rally cry for whatever agenda you have and people will continue to die.
What does Israel have that requires the western countries to look the other way at this shit when they’re appearing to stand up against it elsewhere.
Israel has to exist so "Christians" can get "Raptured" during the "End Times."
That's it. That's literally the actual reason the GOP supports Israel.
And it's actually worse than that. The evangelicals think that there are two conditions that need to be met before Jesus returns.
The first is that Israel is run by Jews. Check.
The second is that Israel suffers a huge attack. I'd say check, but apparently none have been "Jesus returns" big.
But that second part is important. What would happen if some diplomatic genius achieved Middle East peace tomorrow. Somehow, this guy did the diplomacy version of waving a magic wand and now everyone in the region is hugging each other. Great, right?
Well, not for evangelicals. Peace in the Middle East means the chances of an attack on Israel plummet. Certainly any "Jesus returns" level attack.
So the evangelicals NEED the conflict to rage on. They are major contributors to the settlers - who illegally take over Palestinian land because their reading of the Torah says it should be Jewish land. (It doesn't say that, but people will often decide a religious text says what they want it to say.) The evangelicals also help support the right wing politicians in Israel.
In short, evangelicals are basically taking an existing raging fire, tossing kindling on top of it, and then pouring a few gallons of gasoline on top of that.
Oh, and one final note about "Jesus returning." They believe that, after Jesus returns, he'll take them to heaven and toss everyone else - especially all the Jews - into hell. So their "support for Israel" is just delayed anti-semitism (as well as immediate Islamophobia).
Got any sources on that one?
Very easy to find on Google. Search for “evangelical support for Israel” or similar.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/30/us-evangelical-christians-israel-hamas-war
The Bible. /s
Yep. Besides: I'd bet a fiver that this guy counted anybody who criticized Israel as anti semitic. Which is not how this works goddamnit. Or Jehovah damn it? Idk.
He just said “historic,” he didn’t say what part of history.
We all know where the GOP wants to take us.
As an American Jew, I've kind of gotten numb to the anti-semitism on the right. A Republican politician shook hands with Nazis and posed for a photo with a swastika flag? Must be a Thursday.
What I wasn't prepared for was the level of anti-semitism on the left. Now, I'll say right out of the gate that criticizing Israel isn't automatically anti-semitism. Heck, I criticize Israel quite often. I'm not talking about this. I'm talking about progressives declaring that all Jews are responsible for Israel's actions. Progressives attacking Jews, Jewish temples, Jewish businesses, Jewish homes. Progressives celebrating the October 7th attack and wishing that more Jews would be killed. And also progressives saying that anti-semitism isn't happening or that Jews aren't allowed to complain about threats they are getting because other people have it worse. (Would you tell a friend to shut up about how much their broken leg hurts because you saw a guy on the news that had cancer? Does only the group that has it the absolute worst get to complain?)
I consider myself a progressive so this hurt. I was being told that my life and safely doesn't matter by a group that I agreed with in the past. I was told that I was personally responsible for something I have no control over and should be attacked for these "crimes" that I committed (again, despite not living anywhere near Israel).
Being attacked by both sides of the political spectrum is scary and leaves me wondering if anyone would stand up should the words and vandalism turn into something worse.
And, as an additional effect, I do want to speak up for the Palestinians, but don't feel comfortable joining in a group with members calling for violence against me. I just don't feel personally safe doing so. I know this isn't all people who advocate for the Palestinians, but it's a loud enough contingent that I fear for my safety.
I have personally not met any progressives who are antisemitic. Have you noticed any particular demographic of progressives acting antisemitic? Also what region/area are you in as that may have an influence.
I've noticed this a lot on Threads. People who are otherwise progressive arguing that all Jews should be held accountable for what Israel does or telling Jews that they aren't facing anti-semitism. These same people wouldn't dream of telling a black man that he's not facing racism, but if it's a Jew then it seems to be fine with them.
Here's one of the posts that I took a screenshot of. This was in response to a Jewish temple and Jewish owned bakery in America being vandalized.
The solution is don't use Threads. That place is a shithole. If that place is knowingly hosting antisemitic material you might as well leave. Plus its a Zuck owned privacy nightmare.
Interesting. I personally don't use threads/twitter/X as they usually contain a lot of people screaming into the void with too little thought. The picture contains someone equating jewish and zionist which are not the same thing.I think I read somewhere that only 38% of jewish americans are zionist. I agree that vandalizing a zionist given current politics is not antisemitic, but vandalizing jewish buildings would be antisemitic if they are not zionist. I would not support the vandalizing regardless though.
Any vandalism of private property is wrong. First of all, how do you decide who is "Zionist" enough to qualify for vandalism. If I disagree with Israel's actions, but think Israel has a right to exist, should I be called a Zionist and have my house vandalized? Is this true even if I'm American with no say on what actually happens in Israel?
Secondly, how do you determine who was "Zionist?" Do you think these people are researching their target's opinions? Or are they simply saying "here's a Jew, get them"? In France, anti-semites are marking every Jewish owned house/business with a spray painted Jewish star to make it easy to target them. They aren't limiting this to "people who agree with Israel too much."
Finally, if you excuse this violence for one set of views, it's easy to expand it. Say, I don't qualify as "Zionist" enough because I don't agree with what Israel is doing. But then, next month, people decide that saying "Israel deserves to exist as a country" is "too Zionist." Should I be targeted for violence then? (This vandalism included broken windows so I would deem that violence.) Do I need to fall in with a certain group's opinions or I'm subject to attacks?
If you're a actively flying the flag of Israel that might be a good sign that you believe in what they're doing lmao.
And vandalizing the flag itself certainly shouldn't be viewed as antisemitic, I don't condone violence against people of any race/nationality/idea unless in self defence but that's usually on an individual level, you can't take out what the government of Israel is doing out on people who happen to be Jewish.
Since pretty much every Jewish Temple in America flies the Israeli flag, what you're saying is that you view every American Jewish Temple as a "justified target" for vandalism. And yet you don't see that as anti-semitic at all.
Do you support attacking churches as well? Many churches, particularly evangelical ones, provide support to Israel. So would every church be vandalized because someone assumes their position? Or is it just Jewish institutions that get targeted?
You are repeatedly misunderstanding myself and the other user and saying we support violence against jews which we have both stated we do not. You are also equating jews and zionism which are two different things and have far less overlap than you believe. If you are not making your arguements in bad faith, which I suspect you are, you should educate yourself further on the differences.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/05/21/u-s-jews-have-widely-differing-views-on-israel/
It’s not Funkytown is it?
Offering examples of the threat faced by the Jewish community, Mr Wray cited a man who was arrested in Texas last week for trying to build a bomb and posting about his support for killing Jews, and another man who was arrested in Illinois for killing a six-year-old Muslim boy.
Was him being arrested antisemitic?
Not saying antisemitism isn't on the rise, the bomb story sounds horrific, but it seems like islamaphobia also is and the article seems to gloss over it completely until it tries to pass off an example of it as antisemitism.
The article is poorly written. Wray's comments were talking about "violent domestic extremists targeting Jewish or Muslim communities, such as..."
He does elsewhere talk about the specific rise in antisemitism and disproportionate recent increase of threats against Jews, including as called for by foreign terrorist organizations.
So the overall article theme isn't incorrect.
But his primary focus was on how events in the Middle East might lead to violence against Americans, and was discussing both Jewish and Muslim Americans in the part of his speech those examples were pulled from.
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The rise of fascism in the US is deeply disturbing and we should all be concerned. Vibrant democracies can fall shockingly quickly. Constant vigilance is required. Never let fascist assemble unchallenged.
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There is a lot more of it. I understand hating Bibi but all Jews are not to blame.
It's unfortunate how the attitude changes when it's a favourable group of people that's being targeted.
I'm not saying you're wrong. You are right and it should be the way, but the number of people who would sarcastically cry "ugh, it's the 'not all Muslims' defence again!", every time anyone tried to say that the vast, vast majority of Muslims do not support and absolutely reject any form of murder, harm or terrorism.
It really sucks, but people like to have a common enemy. Life is tough, and having someone to vent at seems to be how we cope. It was the Blacks then the Irish, then Muslims, then Chinese, then mask-wearers(!?), and now Jews. It should not be this way, and despite supporting Palestine in their right not not be massacred, I can't help feeling sad that Jews everywhere, no matter their stance on the matter, will face the blind judgement of uneducated, trigger happy self-appointed, miguided vigilantes.
Ugh what is going on with this country?
It wants to keep us infighting so we don't notice how bad things are becoming and go after the real problem, probably.
White supremacy
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