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submitted 4 hours ago by j4k3@lemmy.world to c/askscience@lemmy.world

What might prevent metal "blowing" and other forms of shaping from working if gravity was not a factor? Let's handwave-ignore the extremes of temperature as it relates to techniques and the present primitive space habitats and craft.

Is it possible to suspend a pool of molten metal, with a tube inside, spin while adding a gas to shape a container, and form more complex shapes through additional heat cycles in a repeatable process?

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[-] Death_Equity@lemmy.world 32 points 4 hours ago

You can work glass and plastic the way you can because at a certain temperature range their plasticity and viscosity are conducive to working them in that manner.

Iron has plasticity at a temperature, but lacks the viscosity until it gets too hot to have the plasticity needed. If you had a molten blob of iron in space and tried to inflate it, the material would get a hole blown in the side instead of inflating and stretching out because the working properties aren't right.

[-] superterran@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

What if the substance was only one part iron?

[-] Death_Equity@lemmy.world 1 points 31 minutes ago

An alloy would have to have the working properties needed, but all "metals" have the same problem of viscosity and plasticity not overlapping.

[-] Orbituary@lemmy.world 12 points 3 hours ago

That would no longer be iron, then. It would be an alloy. Steel is the most common example of an iron alloy and it exhibits different properties based on the ratio of carbon and other elements.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Ditto goes for most alloys. Glass-like properties aren't typical, otherwise metal blowing would be a thing.

There might be alloys that can do this, but not the usual ones. Some of the low-melting ones can be gooey-seeming, off the top of my head.

[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

It would take substantially less energy to make metal molten in space. As air pressure drops, the temperature needed for materials to change states becomes lower. That's why water boils much faster on a mountaintop than it does at sea level.

The metal would be manually workable at relatively low temperatures. Without air, you would need a tank of a gaseous substance to “blow” into the metal.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

Melting point doesn't work like boiling point. Otherwise, what would we make rockets out of? They get really hot in a vacuum, but need to (and do) stay solid.

If you go to really high pressures like in an ocean trench or deeper, melting points will raise too (or lower, in water or silicon's case), but 1 vs. 0 atmospheres is negligible. I haven't seen it even mentioned in any vacuum engineering stuff.

[-] disguy_ovahea@lemmy.world 2 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

While it’s true that the relationship between melting point and boiling point differ from material to material, the melting point always remains below the boiling point until the triple point.

The triple point is when the ambient pressure is low enough that a substance can be solid, liquid, and vapor in equilibrium at the same time.

As for engines, they burn at temperatures hot enough to melt the steel they are made of, even while on Earth. Engineers employ regenerative cooling to prevent the housing from melting at such high temperatures.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

They still get very hot, though.

Another example: Every incandescent lighbulb. The filament is stupid hot in there, under a rough vacuum, and doesn't melt. I would be surprised if 1 bar even amounted to a full degree of change in melting/freezing point.

Water is volatile, and so it's a better example of variability at familiar scales. You'll notice the freezing point is pretty much vertical at 0C on the phase chart until 100s of bars. (And then gets lower because pressure pushes matter towards denser states, and ice I is, unusually, less dense than the liquid)

The triple point shows up when the boiling point lowers to meet the melting point, and liquid water ceases to exist as a stable substance. It's at ~0C.

[-] Donjuanme@lemmy.world 2 points 3 hours ago

Why would you need to go to space to try this? And since you're thinking in space, how would you cool it down?

[-] ThePantser@lemmy.world 1 points 3 hours ago

Space is cold, the question is how would you keep it hot?

[-] BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago

Space is cold, but since it's a vacuum (a great insulator) keeping things cool is a greater challenge.

[-] jewbacca117@lemmy.world 9 points 3 hours ago

Sure, but temperature is useless in a vacuum. The heat has nowhere to go. There is some ambient radiation in space, but not enough. Temperature regulation is a serious thing for astronauts.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

Things still do cool in shaded space, though, it just takes longer. The James Webb took like a month or two to get down to cryogenic IIRC.

I have a feeling OP was worried about gravity, which isn't usually helpful here, but isn't actually a dealbreaker. Glass is heavy too.

[-] j4k3@lemmy.world 0 points 2 hours ago

I have not invented antigravity. If you have any pointers, I'm all ears. /s

this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2024
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