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[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 20 points 4 weeks ago

this is based on poore-nemecek 2018, a paper so fraught with methodological faux pas as to be a warning to anyone trying to do a metastudy.

[-] bradbeattie@lemmy.ca 9 points 4 weeks ago

Following the trail of your comment: https://ourworldindata.org/land-use-diets does indeed cite https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaq0216, but I'd love it if you could provide more details on your criticisms of methodology.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

this paper is over half a decade old, and i've been whining about it pretty much that whole time, but i don't recall the last time i actually dug into the methodology. to my recollection, they call it a metastudy and they compare LCAs from disparate studies, but LCAs themselves are not transferable between studies. that's just one point.

if i recall correctly, they also used some california water study as the basis of their water use claims, but the water use included things like cottonseed, which is not grown for cattle feed, and using it in cattle feed is actually a conservation of resources. cotton is a notoriously light and water-demanding crop, so using the heavy byproduct to add to the water use of california dairies is, to me, dishonest.

i have no doubt that if i were to slice up this paper citation-by-citation, every one of them would have some misrepresented facts or methodology being repackaged as, i don't say this lightly, vegan propaganda.

[-] bradbeattie@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 weeks ago

Dug up the paper in question for anyone curious: https://sci-hub.se/https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aaq0216. At a cursory glance, I'm not seeing any of the referenced concerns. But, y'know, down vote away I guess.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 weeks ago

I encourage you to read the citations and learn about LCAs

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[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

So what's a better study or metastudy? The actual results, aside from poultry being weirdly low-resource, seem about right when you consider the way energy usually moves through food webs.

That's "Life Cycle Assessment", for anyone else that's wondering.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 3 weeks ago

The actual results

are meaningless, because they misuse the source data.

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[-] Blackout@fedia.io 13 points 4 weeks ago

Think of all the parking lots we could build with that land!

[-] recklessengagement@lemmy.world 13 points 4 weeks ago

Looks like we could change to just eating poultry and have roughly the same effect

[-] GreatTitEnthusiast@mander.xyz 8 points 4 weeks ago

Poultry is definitely the more climate friendly of the meats but it doesn't come without problems

There's still increased risks of pandemic with factory farmed chickens and most chickens are raised in inhumane conditions

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[-] ganksy@lemmy.world 8 points 4 weeks ago

I suppose this doesn't take into account more humane animal farming? Like not keeping a million chickens and three long barns? Or pigs with a livable space?

[-] minibyte@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 weeks ago* (last edited 4 weeks ago)

The thing with pigs is: they eat a metric fuck-ton, so a lot of that land usage is to grow grain for feed.

That’s the vegans’ main point – we grow food to feed it to our food.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 4 weeks ago

pigs are mostly fed crop seconds or other waste product. it's just not true that we are growing food exclusively for pigs.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 3 weeks ago
[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 3 weeks ago

the soybean meal is literally the byproduct of pressing soybeans for oil.

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[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Yeah, that would make it even worse. I'm not sure by how much though, because like the other person said this is representative of cropland.

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[-] match@pawb.social 7 points 3 weeks ago

I've been avoiding poultry for fucking nothing? I'm gonna go eat a thousand chicken nuggies

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[-] paysrenttobirds@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 weeks ago

What's new to me in this data is that the increase in cropland for humans for a vegan diet is still less that what we currently feed to animals in spite of the enormous amount of pasture they also require.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 5 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

Yep. As a rule of thumb, 1/10th of the energy makes it to the next trophic level in any food chain. We might be doing better than that, but you're still going to to be wasting a lot of land at 30% end-to-end efficiency.

[-] commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 4 weeks ago

except that the food that is fed to livestock is largely crop seconds or parts of crops that people can't or won't eat. so we need to find a whole other use for those parts of the plants or accept it as waste.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 4 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago)

I know a lot of people who grow feed on prime agricultural land. Like, can you eat alfalfa? Have you ever tried feed varieties of maize?

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[-] Firebirdie713@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 points 3 weeks ago

Or we can use it as compost, which we should be moving towards producing and using instead of manure as fertilizer for a lot of our agriculture. That way it doesn't go to waste even if it does get 'thrown out'.

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[-] corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 5 points 3 weeks ago

I like how poultry-inclusive diets get us 95% of the way there.

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[-] minibyte@sh.itjust.works 3 points 4 weeks ago

So my diet is better than a vegan family of four? Glad I got that vasectomy.

[-] paysrenttobirds@sh.itjust.works 5 points 4 weeks ago

There's more than one way to save the earth :)

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this post was submitted on 01 Sep 2024
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