660
US economy going strong under Biden – Americans don’t believe it
(www.theguardian.com)
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
this post was submitted on 15 Sep 2023
660 points (93.4% liked)
politics
19120 readers
2610 users here now
Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!
Rules:
- Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
Links must be to the original source, not an aggregator like Google Amp, MSN, or Yahoo.
Example:
- Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
- Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
- No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive. Similarly, if you see posts along these lines, do not engage. Report them, block them, and live a happier life than they do. We see too many slapfights that boil down to "Mom! He's bugging me!" and "I'm not touching you!" Going forward, slapfights will result in removed comments and temp bans to cool off.
- Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
- No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning
We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.
All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.
That's all the rules!
Civic Links
• Congressional Awards Program
• Library of Congress Legislative Resources
• U.S. House of Representatives
Partnered Communities:
• News
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
The economy overall might be fine, but the average person can still not be.
People don't care much about data and facts on unemployment and GDP when ultimately their personal situation is what matters. Things are more expensive and wages for a lot of people haven't kept up. Already have too many people think that no/less inflation means prices go down, when actually that just means prices stay the same or go up slower. Deflation is off the table cause that can be even worse.
Sadly, there isn't much that can be done beyond sticking to higher interest rates and letting the market adapt and catch up.
Not much the president can do either, especially with this congress. Even if it wasn't, the changes and effects would likely take years to even reach fruition. Let alone have a significant impact for most people if all goes according to plan.
We have seen this scenario play out before.
Exactly. Articles like this are meaningless and only serve to boost his genuine fanbase.
They're not meaningless... they're ruling class propaganda telling us to feel fine with this
I wouldn't say it means to be fine with this. I think it's to stop people from switching away from Democrats to GOP because the Republicans only way to reach swing votes is to convince them they can do better with the economy. They're not going to win them over with their "anti-woke" agenda and oppressing various minorities. This is a Republican economy though. Not saying it's their fault, but it is the economy they aim for.
I'm not sure that this is the case but I'm not an expert. A recent opinion pieces by Krugman showed survey data that indicated that most people reported doing ok, while also saying the economy was not. Some of this might be related to individuals doing ok but being worried about the prevalence of folks struggling.
Article: https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/07/opinion/economy-inflation-negativity.html
One key point is that at the end of 2022, 73% of respondents said that they were doing at least ok financially. So almost three quarters of households aren't significantly struggling, and yet a majority of people also say the economy isn't doing well, even when they are.
Now, many people are struggling, but many people are always struggling. The question is why is the proportion of people with a negative sentiment towards the economy out of whack with the number of people reporting doing ok financially.
I dunno; Krugman makes some guesses and the article is a quick read. If you hit a paywall let me know and I'll make a gift link.
Edit: I’m OK, but Things Are Terrible
Because people want to be doing better than just okay and they want nobody to be struggling. Especially when there's a few people who are making several orders of magnitude more than those who are "doing okay."
Gift article: I’m OK, but Things Are Terrible
That's likely true, but is also always likely true. The question is why are the proportion of responses on individual household stability different than prior years with similar economic measures. It's something affecting perceptions, or are we missing a measure of the economy? Some l since the study is a long ongoing one done by the fed, and it is 73% doing at least ok, it seems like there is some interesting questions to form for further follow-up.
A couple things might have changed. First, the shared experience of the pandemic may have increased the average level of empathy - outside of some nutjobs. If you're doing okay but you care about the people around you struggling you won't think the economy is doing well.
Second, income inequality is now higher than at any time in history. Many Americans would probably put "fairness" as part of the criteria for how they judge the economy. While it's nice that your wages are keeping up with inflation, your boss's boss's boss's boss's boss got a seven-figure bonus on top of his eight-figure salary and nine-figure-plus net worth.
And while this will definitely raise the median and mean incomes nationally, people won't feel like things are improving, leading to data that makes economists shrug.
Then again, until recently economists had to create an entirely new species of hominid to explain their theories so I don't trust them to have a good idea of how normal people think.
I tend to agree in that I think much of the perception discrepancy is based on the belief that a greater proportion of the country is suffering, or that the suffering happening is preventable. To your point, inequity shapes people's perception and it's hard not to feel like big companies and execs are screwing people for a few extra percentage points. The general feeling that people are suffering and it is particularly avoidable compared to the (perception) in the past could explain negative attitudes towards the economy and inflation.
Thanks for the great conversation!
You too! The fediverse is just so friendly :)
Paywall.
But that is very weird if people think they are fine, but somehow others aren't and the economy isn't. At least enough to say that.
Gift article: I’m OK, but Things Are Terrible
Yeah, the survey responses seem out of whack compared to historical data. It's odd, and worth thinking about.
Interesting option from the article.
So, it might be more "everything is falling apart or not the same" type of thinking. Could explain it and wouldn't surprise me.
Everything does seem different after COVID at least. Things don't feel the same even years after.
Seeing a Paywall. But that being said, does the article quantify how they are doing financially, or is it a self report on whether they think they are "OK" or not? If so, then are they actually financially OK, or is this a case of "I could be homeless, but I'm currently not, so I'm ok"? If so, there is definitely room for bias in that number. I live in a relatively low col area and cost for everything are up to levels that would definitely mess with those making under 45-50k a year.
Gift article: I’m OK, but Things Are Terrible
If recommend looking at the article since it looks to the survey details. The survey I mentioned was specifically polling household's and 73% said that their household was doing at least ok. This is a long running study done regularly by the fed, and the proportion of responses doesn't fit with historical trends. So either something is missing on how we measure perceptions or how we measure the economy. Both lead to interesting questions.